Hey Deon, mL and others!!! I've been playing around with Docker lately.

It seems like a decent platform to run [several] bbSes on one server... both the simple ones [bbsio/synchronet] and even DOS BBS softwares w/ the use of DOSEMU. [jgoerzen/bbs-renegade and others by him]

I'm able to pull bbs-renegade, run it and connect to the port using a terminal software - I can build it locally to keep it persistent, of course.

Some others [jeffmealiffe/mysticbbs-docker, gryffyn/mysticbbs-docker] show how to build locally, with the /mystic directory linked to the running Docker container for easy editing of files you might need...

Deon - is yer ANSiTex in Docker by chance?

I was thinking it would be awesome to have a 'bbs' that was simply a WFC screen that allowed the connected user to login to as many historical [stock] bbS softwares as I can get setup... thinking that Docker might be a decent way to do this. With help from the above works, and others, I can learn some better practices at setting up both native and DOS softwares.

Is there any interest in this - and/or, can I ask ?s here along the way if I start to get a hang of things? It seems a lot of folks get something basic running, but don't go the full distance. I'd like to get persistent installs of different softwares - which in the grand scheme doesn't seem all THAT hard - just work getting there.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1337:3/129)

Re: bbS Servers in Docker
By: paulie420 to Deon & Others on Wed May 24 2023 07:15 pm

Hey Deon, mL and others!!! I've been playing around with Docker lately.

Hey hey!

It seems like a decent platform to run [several] bbSes on one server... both the simple ones [bbsio/synchronet] and even DOS BBS softwares w/ the use of DOSEMU. [jgoerzen/bbs-renegade and others by him]

I like your thinking. Yup, it is a good platform to run anything, and I've taken jgoerzen method and extended it to run DOS BBSes. I started on it a while ago, to get my Ezycom back online - and I did, but parked it as I got distracted with other things. (I built images using dosemu and qemu - serial transfers was tricky, but doable...)

The challenge I had, (which may be due to the way I was implementing it), is DOS doesnt give up the CPU, so my poor little APU1D was working hard for very little use. It was also challenging to get a reliable mailer working (so that it had mail) - since zmodem is very fussy if one side is slower than the other. (Which resulted in me starting on clearghouz with EMSI/Zmodem support - where I could control the Zmodem timeouts.)

I've got a long way to go, and distractions seem to get in the way.

Deon - is yer ANSiTex in Docker by chance?

Yes and no.

My latest implementation of ANSItex is a module to synchronet. My thinking was to package it as a docker BBS, but I havent got it functional enough (to my liking) to package it that way. (It would help it be "interBBS", so that if you updated frames, they were available on all deployments...)

So at the moment, Synchronet is a container and its a javascript "mod" that currently lives outside the container until I get to be happy with what I've created (and its easy to update/debug).

(I use my own synchronet docker container).

That said, if you are interested, I could ammend my CI building to build an update as I make updates to the code.

Is there any interest in this - and/or, can I ask ?s here along the way if I start to get a hang of things? It seems a lot of folks get something basic running, but don't go the full distance. I'd like to get persistent installs of different softwares - which in the grand scheme doesn't seem all THAT hard - just work getting there.

Yeah, I'm interested in this. I was thinking of doing a similar thing, so happy to help out... :)


...δεσ∩
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (1337:2/101)

On 24 May 2023, paulie420 said the following...

I was thinking it would be awesome to have a 'bbs' that was simply a WFC screen that allowed the connected user to login to as many historical [stock] bbS softwares as I can get setup... thinking that Docker might
be a decent way to do this. With help from the above works, and others,
I can learn some better practices at setting up both native and DOS softwares.

Is there any interest in this - and/or, can I ask ?s here along the way
if I start to get a hang of things? It seems a lot of folks get
something basic running, but don't go the full distance. I'd like to get persistent installs of different softwares - which in the grand scheme doesn't seem all THAT hard - just work getting there.

I think this is a neat idea, for sure. You should definitely pursue it. Ask questions, maybe we can all learn from/with you =)

---
|14Best regards,
|11Ch|03rist|11ia|15n |11a|03ka |11Me|03aTLoT|11io|15N // @meatlotion:erb.pw

|07── |08[|10eml|08] |15ml@erb.pw |07── |08[|10web|08] |15www.erb.pw |07───┐ |07── |08[|09fsx|08] |1521:1/158 |07── |08[|11tqw|08] |151337:1/101 |07┬──┘ |07── |08[|12rtn|08] |1580:774/81 |07─┬ |08[|14fdn|08] |152:250/5 |07───┘
|07── |08[|10ark|08] |1510:104/2 |07─┘

... Help! I can't find the "ANY" key.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (1337:1/101)

On 26 May 2023, MeaTLoTioN said the following...

I think this is a neat idea, for sure. You should definitely pursue it. Ask questions, maybe we can all learn from/with you =)
Christian aka MeaTLoTioN // @meatlotion:erb.pw

Seconded. I would love to learn more about the Docker stuff I do have a couple docker servers when I need to work on them it's always a journey. Would love to see how you do with it. Keep us posted. BTW did you ever get all the picks of that 486 up?

|23|04Dr|16|12Claw
|16|14Sysop |12Noverdu |14BBS |20|15Radio|10@|14HTTP://Noverdu.com:88
|16|10 Standard ports for SSH/Telnet |04 WEB|14@|12HTTP://noverdu.com:808 |20|15Global Chat, Global Messaging and Games! |16|10Ditch the Unsocial Media

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Noverdu BBS (1337:3/177)

[Docker]

It seems like a decent platform to run [several] bbSes on one server... the simple ones [bbsio/synchronet] and even DOS BBS softwares w/ the us DOSEMU. [jgoerzen/bbs-renegade and others by him]

I like your thinking. Yup, it is a good platform to run anything, and
I've taken jgoerzen method and extended it to run DOS BBSes. I started
on it a while ago, to get my Ezycom back online - and I did, but parked
it as I got distracted with other things. (I built images using dosemu
and qemu - serial transfers was tricky, but doable...)

Thats exactly what I was thinking... as stated there were a few different Mystic projects that I found that show how to link external files to the Docker Container - and I'm slowly trying to get a native [first] install of Mystic A48 going, and will later try to do the same w/ DOS based packages... once you get one going really nicely it'll be simpler to port other BBS softwares.

I don't LOVE jgoerzen's way of using 'supervisor' and VNC to get into the DOS dockers - but he's done a lot of work...

The challenge I had, (which may be due to the way I was implementing
it), is DOS doesnt give up the CPU, so my poor little APU1D was working hard for very little use. It was also challenging to get a reliable
mailer working (so that it had mail) - since zmodem is very fussy if one side is slower than the other. (Which resulted in me starting on clearghouz with EMSI/Zmodem support - where I could control the Zmodem timeouts.)

Yer above my head already, but for mail I've gained a lot of knowledge from the Renegade guys... they have their [Legacy hardware/VMs] tossing right along.

Thanks for the chat - I'll post any neatness if I get things going. I had an idea for a matrix login w/ dozens of STOCK [with fsxNet...] softwares for folks to experience. The 'bbs' would BE the different softwares.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1337:3/129)

On 27 May 2023, paulie420 said the following...

I sent YOU a bunch - the Dolch project is coming to an end and I'll be making a video... it took a long time to understand all the old BIOS issues - but I've overcome them and have a really nice 2-CFCard solution all cleanly installed and... its coming along great.

I got a bit sidetracked as I'm waiting for hardware... gonna install a floppy emu and am still waiting for a suitable SoundBlaster as the
Dolch's weren't build for... us. Once that arrives, I have an amplifier
w/ some speakers that I'm installing in the luggable...

pAULIE42o
.........

I can't wait to see it! I looked in the uploads on my system and didn't see them. Hmmm might be having an issue. will need some testing. Let me know when you have them on your board and where they will be. I'll drop by and get them.

:D

|23|04Dr|16|12Claw
|16|14Sysop |12Noverdu |14BBS |20|15Radio|10@|14HTTP://Noverdu.com:88
|16|10 Standard ports for SSH/Telnet |04 WEB|14@|12HTTP://noverdu.com:808 |20|15Global Chat, Global Messaging and Games! |16|10Ditch the Unsocial Media

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Noverdu BBS (1337:3/177)

Re: Re: bbS Servers in Docker
By: paulie420 to deon on Sat May 27 2023 03:38 pm

I don't LOVE jgoerzen's way of using 'supervisor' and VNC to get into the

Actually I dont mind it. For the DOS bbs, if you could attach to a dos terminal that would be good - and perhaps with QEMU cursors you could, but if DOS is run in a window it works OK.

I actually used this to get multinode running, so each "node" was a new window, and VNC enabled me to see what was going on in each window.

DOS dockers - but he's done a lot of work...

The challenge I had, (which may be due to the way I was implementing it), is DOS doesnt give up the CPU, so my poor little APU1D was working hard for very little use. It was also challenging to get a reliable mailer working (so that it had mail) - since zmodem is very fussy if one side is slower than the other. (Which resulted in me starting on

Yer above my head already, but for mail I've gained a lot of knowledge from the Renegade guys... they have their [Legacy hardware/VMs] tossing right along.

Which part? The CPU bit is because DOS thinks it owns the CPU and runs it full steam. You can load "dosidle" which does give up the CPU, but when you have a BBS with a WFC screen (or a mailer), it doesnt give up much :(

The mailer part is if you want to use mail transfers (or for that matter enable file downloads from the DOS BBS). The common transfer being used (zmodem), is not tollerant to each side of the connection having different speeds.

Since DOS BBSes only talk serial ports - the "DOS" side is limited by the speed of the emulated serial port - say 115200 baud, but the other side is ethernet (with operating system buffers). So when a transfer is done, 1 side waits for the other to say "I'm finished, or I got it" - and it only waits so long. If it doesnt get a response then it "timesout".

The problem is, for example, the ethernet side sends a file, it fills up a TCP/IP buffer and it thinks the otherside should have got it (and waits for the ACK) - but the other side is draining the TCP buffer through a slow link (115200) and if it takes too long to get to the end of the buffer, the other side has given up and gone.

When I wrote my clrghouz mailer, I made zmodem send at a slower speed, and wait longer before "timeing out" the other side...


...δεσ∩
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (1337:2/101)

I actually used this to get multinode running, so each "node" was a new window, and VNC enabled me to see what was going on in each window.

Ahhhh - now thats interesting; I didn't think about how you could just open X windows w/ jgoerzen's container - that makes it m0re interesting...

Which part? The CPU bit is because DOS thinks it owns the CPU and runs
it full steam. You can load "dosidle" which does give up the CPU, but
when you have a BBS with a WFC screen (or a mailer), it doesnt give up much :(

The mailer part is if you want to use mail transfers (or for that matter enable file downloads from the DOS BBS). The common transfer being used (zmodem), is not tollerant to each side of the connection having
different speeds.

Since DOS BBSes only talk serial ports - the "DOS" side is limited by
the speed of the emulated serial port - say 115200 baud, but the other side is ethernet (with operating system buffers). So when a transfer is done, 1 side waits for the other to say "I'm finished, or I got it" -
and it only waits so long. If it doesnt get a response then it
"timesout".

The problem is, for example, the ethernet side sends a file, it fills up
a TCP/IP buffer and it thinks the otherside should have got it (and
waits for the ACK) - but the other side is draining the TCP buffer
through a slow link (115200) and if it takes too long to get to the end
of the buffer, the other side has given up and gone.

Thanks for taking the time to outline/explain some bumps you've hit... I appreciate knowing a few things to l00k out for - I'll share if and when I get anywhere or hit roadblocks. :P



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1337:3/129)

I sent YOU a bunch - the Dolch project is coming to an end and I'll be making a video... it took a long time to understand all the old BIOS issues - but I've overcome them and have a really nice 2-CFCard solution all cleanly installed and... its coming along great.

What is Dolch? I just found some retro computer as the only reference I could find on the net? Above suggests some software rather than hardware reference. I'm confused :>

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1337:3/129)

What is Dolch? I just found some retro computer as the only reference I could find on the net? Above suggests some software rather than hardware reference. I'm confused :>

One of my retro (486DX/66) computers is a Dolch Portable Luggable... it was originally designed as a Network Packet Sniffer.

You can read all about it on my website @ https://techheart.life/articles/meet-the-dolch-pac-60/
and I'm supposed to get around to making a video about the project... waiting on some more parts, a GoTek floppy drive emulator to replace a 3.5" drive and a SoundBlaster as it wasn't designed with sound. Its really a nice package for a retro enthusiast.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1337:3/129)

You can read all about it on my website @ https://techheart.life/articles/meet-the-dolch-pac-60/

Interesting, what CPU do you have in that PAC-60 version? 3/486 or is it already a pentium era computer?

What is the GPU there? Is is just VGA compatible or does it come with various SVGA capabilities as well?

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1337:3/129)

You can read all about it on my website @ https://techheart.life/articles/meet-the-dolch-pac-60/

Interesting, what CPU do you have in that PAC-60 version? 3/486 or is it already a pentium era computer?

CPU is a 486DX/66 - there are Dolch PACs both 486/33 and Pentium, Pentium II and POSSIBLY Pentium III. Curious Marc, on Youtube, has a great series on the Dolch PAC that is also worth a viewing... he really motivated me to take the dive on the Dolch machine - and I think its a great package for vintage computing, since its MIL spec and such a strong and compact (luggable) package.

What is the GPU there? Is is just VGA compatible or does it come with ho> various SVGA capabilities as well?

The GPU is a Viper 535 (or 353 - I can't remember and I don't wanna go look at the card. :P) - its a VGA, but nothing fancy... it'll play Doom, but it isn't gonna do much past Windows 95 - and that'll be a stretch. BUT, its right where I remember living in the good ole days. :P

I've got it kitted out w/ two CFCard --> ISA adapters and waiting on a SoundBlaster that I'm gonna add a small amplifier and speaker to.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1337:3/129)

great package for vintage computing, since its MIL spec and such a
strong and compact (luggable) package.

Any chances they can be available outside US, somewhere EU as well?

The GPU is a Viper 535 (or 353 - I can't remember and I don't wanna go look at the card. :P) - its a VGA, but nothing fancy... it'll play Doom,

If with UniVBE you can confirm it has at least VESA 1.2 then this would be a very legitimate graphics card for 486DX, but of course if its VGA is fast and can do Doom in 70Hz then it's obviously a superior MS-DOS retro gaming and computing platform. If you have packet driver for MTCP the I believe you can also get it connected to BBSes, have you tested that?

I've got it kitted out w/ two CFCard --> ISA adapters and waiting on a SoundBlaster that I'm gonna add a small amplifier and speaker to.

Nice. If not then please consider rPI project that emulates MT-32, perhaps it could be somehow plugged to this computer as well.

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1337:3/129)

It seems like a decent platform to run [several] bbSes on one server... both the simple ones [bbsio/synchronet] and even DOS BBS softwares w/
the use of DOSEMU. [jgoerzen/bbs-renegade and others by him]

Not sure if he is using docker but this seems to be what Ruben does over at
the Prison BBS (pbmystic.rdfig.net:24).

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (1337:1/101)