Hi all,

Just wondering do I need to shut down mis to do a backup or can I just do a gzip of the whole directory while mystic is running?

Thanks!

... 640K ought to be enough for anybody. -Bill Gates, 1981.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 27 Mar 2023, toofargone said the following...

Just wondering do I need to shut down mis to do a backup or can I just
do a gzip of the whole directory while mystic is running?

I shut mine down before doing a backup as I also do a purge/pack of my message bases before doing the backup & Mystic must be shut down before doing the pack.


Jay

... What did the Dalmatian say after lunch? That hit the spot!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/03/14 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

Just wondering do I need to shut down mis to do a backup or can I just
do a gzip of the whole directory while mystic is running?

Thanks!

I run a python script that does that while mis is running.

ogg
Sysop, Altair IV BBS
altairiv.ddns.net:2323

... Classic: A book which people praise but don't read. - Mark Twain

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/01/28 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Altair IV BBS (21:2/147)

Thanks! I wrote a basic shell script to shutdown the server, run the backup, and restart it. I'll have crontab run it every evening.

I didn't like the idea of running it while mis was running just in case it corrupted something.

... I have a really good memory, except it's short.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

I do backups with mis running. I accept that it's not the safest method, however what I do to mitigate this risk is to take multiple backups. I

maybe if I ever get a good number of callers I'll have to consider something other than shutting down, I was looking at rsnapshot but I've got to do more reading.

... System halted - Press all keys at once to continue

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Just wondering do I need to shut down mis to do a backup or can I just
do a gzip of the whole directory while mystic is running?

I do backups with mis running. I accept that it's not the safest method, however what I do to mitigate this risk is to take multiple backups. I take one daily for seven days, one weekly for four weeks, one monthly for 12 months, and one yearly. I figure this amount of redundancy will always leave me with a properly backed up system :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

Keep in mind that making a copy of a running process shouldn't do
anything which would cause problems with the running BBS, it just might

My only concern would be copying a file in the middle of a write. I guess the worst that could happen is a corrupted backup but I think I'll go the shutdown route to be safe :)

... If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

maybe if I ever get a good number of callers I'll have to consider something other than shutting down, I was looking at rsnapshot but I've got to do more reading.

Keep in mind that making a copy of a running process shouldn't do anything which would cause problems with the running BBS, it just might result in a wonky backup. So unless someone knows something which conflicts with my understanding of how file copying works, I suspect it's probably mostly fine :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

On 27 Mar 2023, toofargone said the following...

Hi all,

Just wondering do I need to shut down mis to do a backup or can I just
do a gzip of the whole directory while mystic is running?

Thanks!

This is how I complete a backup.
bring down the BBS.
with a usb storage stick, backup the entire mystic directory with the use of windows file explorer.
After the backup is complete, I delete all of the log files from the bbs that is existing on the hard drive (within mystic- they can grow to be quite large) then I complete the process with maintenance mutil maint from the c:\mystic directory Then restart the BBS
* This is is the same practice (backing it up) that I use before any I make any changes.
Hope this helps.

.≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
_[]_││──││ │TROY│ │HUB│ │ Fidonet │ │FSX Net│ ║S I N C E║ │Another Message│
{ NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│ │21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00──┘

... If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (21:1/127)

On 3/27/2023 10:58 AM, toofargone wrote to All:

Hi all,

Just wondering do I need to shut down mis to do a backup or can I just do a gzip of the whole directory while mystic is running?

Thanks!

I run Windows and use a program called Power Archiver to zip the directories. I shut
down the server, hit CTRL A to highlight everything, right click and send the directories
and files to a file called mystic.zip

Then I drag the .zip file to my documents folder and restart Mystic. Took less than 2
minutes. If I do another backup, I will rename the next one to match the date of the
backup.

Mike Dippel

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The Hobby Line! BBS - hobbylinebbs.com (21:4/176)

esc wrote to toofargone <=-

Keep in mind that making a copy of a running process shouldn't do
anything which would cause problems with the running BBS, it just
might result in a wonky backup. So unless someone knows something
which conflicts with my understanding of how file copying works,
I suspect it's probably mostly fine :)

Agreed on your first sentence... but doesn't having a "wonky" backup
kind of defeat the purpose of making/having a backup in the first place?

If you can't restore it, it has no value.



... All the easy problems have been solved.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

On 27 Mar 2023, toofargone said the following...

maybe if I ever get a good number of callers I'll have to consider something other than shutting down, I was looking at rsnapshot but I've got to do more reading.

I back up my entire VM when I back up. It is running at the time, so if I have to restore I restore the entire /mystic directory. I personally use my Synology NAS to do my backups, but as a backup (Yea go figure) I use VEEAM free agent that works fine, it does incrementals every night, and a full backup once a week. If I do need to restore for any reason, I just run a ./mis poll killbusy all and it kills all the semaphores and I am ready to reboot and go on with minimal downtime or loss.. You can run VEEAM Free Agent in Windows also if that is what you are using...

Al

... Intelligence tests are biased toward the literate.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Wrong Number Family Of BBS' - Wrong Number ][ (21:4/131)

On 27 Mar 2023, Deyssman said the following...

This is how I complete a backup.
bring down the BBS.
with a usb storage stick, backup the entire mystic directory with the
use of windows file explorer.
After the backup is complete, I delete all of the log files from the bbs that is existing on the hard drive (within mystic- they can grow to be quite large) then I complete the process with maintenance mutil maint
from the c:\mystic directory Then restart the BBS
* This is is the same practice (backing it up) that I use before any I make any changes.
Hope this helps.

You know to make life a bit easier you might consider writing a .bat file to do it all.. When I was running in Windows, I had a bat file which every sunday morning would copy all of the logs to another directory and rename them the date then at the end of the month I would just zip up all the weekly logs and rename it the year and month.. You could probably toss backing up in it also.. That would be a simple add on to a bat file like that.. I currently run in Debian and use a bash script to do it, only thing I would like ot add to it is to zip up the weekly logs into a monthly pack..

Al

... BREAKFAST.COM Halted... Cereal port not responding.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Wrong Number Family Of BBS' - Wrong Number ][ (21:4/131)

Agreed on your first sentence... but doesn't having a "wonky" backup
kind of defeat the purpose of making/having a backup in the first place?

Yep, 100%. I take multiple backups for redundancy though and that's how I accept the risk.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

Hi Bucko,

go figure) I use VEEAM free agent that works fine, it does
incrementals every night, and a full backup once a week. If I do need

[...]

minimal downtime or loss.. You can run VEEAM Free Agent in Windows
also if that is what you are using...

I'll second the Veeam Backup agent. Even though it is made to work with a backup server, the agant can also work stand alone.

It's saved many a computer/file deleteion error.

Add that there are versions for both Windoze, Linux and can work on VM's
or real hardware!



\/orlon
aka
Stephen


--- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
* Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)

I would shut down your BBS before doing a backup. When I do a backup, I just shut down the BBS and then copy the whole Mystic directory to a new directory and name it something like "BBS backup March 27." I don't have a lot of files so there isn't a lot to backup.

... Hard work never killed anyone but why take a risk?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: The Unmarked Van - 21:1/130 - Mt. Healthy, Ohio (21:1/130)

esc wrote to Gamgee <=-

Agreed on your first sentence... but doesn't having a "wonky" backup
kind of defeat the purpose of making/having a backup in the first place?

Yep, 100%. I take multiple backups for redundancy though and
that's how I accept the risk.

Understood, with the caveat of there's some (preventable) risk
introduced which could be avoided. Also, everyone's threshold of
acceptable risk is likely different. It's *possible* that ALL of those redundant backups could be bad.

In the context of the original-ish post of this thread, I can find no valid/acceptable reason to *NOT* stop the BBS/server before doing a
backup. Especially an incremental (e.g. 'rysnc' type thing) backup, as
the whole process of shutdown/backup/startup likely takes about a single minute. Even a complete backup might take 5 minutes.



... You can't save yourselves. But you can save your legacy. -Hari Seldon
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Just wondering do I need to shut down mis to do a backup or can I just
do a gzip of the whole directory while mystic is running?

Alright, many have already posted but I'm gonna give this a go. :P 2oFB runs on a Proxmox VM. So first, I have a PBS [Proxmox Backup Server] that runs every night. I save 1 yearly, 1 monthly, 1 weekly, 1 daily backup forever.

Then, I also run a backup of the entire bbS drive locally - well, to my NAS but just an rsync backup. This runs weekly.

I can access that local backup if any files get corrupted, or whatever - any Mystic issues that pop up I could pull from them to fix anything.

In case of a full failure, I'd use the first 'good' backup from the PBS - this should be yesterdays... but if theres some issue with that, I'd revert to a week back - if theres an issue there, a month back... and so on.

:P I haven't had to test my backups yet - but I do occasionally spin up a test VM on a second PVE [Proxmox] node to make sure I can drop one of the PBS backups in and get right back up if need be. The 1 daily has never failed - I think with my setup I can just revert to yesterdays bbS if theres ever an issue...

Oh yea; I also temporarily save 7 days worth of PBS backups - so... I could go to day2/3/4/5/6/7 if I miss the FAILURE for more than 24 hours, etc.

What ya'll think - is 2oFB safe?



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Understood, with the caveat of there's some (preventable) risk
introduced which could be avoided. Also, everyone's threshold of acceptable risk is likely different. It's *possible* that ALL of those redundant backups could be bad.

Yep! For sure. I don't disagree with your logic here, and it has me rethinking some things.

In the context of the original-ish post of this thread, I can find no valid/acceptable reason to *NOT* stop the BBS/server before doing a backup. Especially an incremental (e.g. 'rysnc' type thing) backup, as the whole process of shutdown/backup/startup likely takes about a single minute. Even a complete backup might take 5 minutes.

My only concern would be that I don't think Mystic gives any sort of "we're going to have an outage in 30 minutes" thing, but it's not like users would really care. *shrug*

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

esc wrote to Gamgee <=-

In the context of the original-ish post of this thread, I can find no valid/acceptable reason to *NOT* stop the BBS/server before doing a backup. Especially an incremental (e.g. 'rysnc' type thing) backup, as the whole process of shutdown/backup/startup likely takes about a single minute. Even a complete backup might take 5 minutes.

My only concern would be that I don't think Mystic gives any sort
of "we're going to have an outage in 30 minutes" thing, but it's
not like users would really care. *shrug*

One way around the automated methods, where a user might get dumped, is
to just do it manually now and then. When you see that nobody is logged
on, just run a script to stop/backup/start, and the odds are very high
that it'll be done before anyone tries to log in anyway. I mean, we are talking about a BBS here, not national security stuff... ;-)



... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

My only concern would be that I don't think Mystic gives any sort of "we're going to have an outage in 30 minutes" thing, but it's not like users would really care. *shrug*

I remember back in the day I had some really small software that would simply display a .txt to a user who called, and hang up after 30 seconds. The .txt would be something like;

2o fOr beeRS is currently down for maintenance.
**** you, call back later loser!

It would run as the backups were done. :P



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

paulie420 wrote to esc <=-

I remember back in the day I had some really small software that would simply display a .txt to a user who called, and hang up after 30
seconds. The .txt would be something like;

2o fOr beeRS is currently down for maintenance.
**** you, call back later loser!

Mailers used to do that after the "hit <esc> twice" prompt for
maintenance or ZMH. It was handy to schedule off-BBS time.




... Once the search has begun, something will be found
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

On 28 Mar 2023, paulie420 said the following...

I remember back in the day I had some really small software that would simply display a .txt to a user who called, and hang up after 30
seconds. The .txt would be something like;

If running in Windows, you can use a program called BBS Server which is sort of a TCPSER type of program mainly used to answer telnet calls and transfer them via a serial port to another serial port. It is used in the Commodore world to have a real Commodore computer answer Telnet then transfer to a Swiftlink or serial card via a RS232 cable. It has a option to answer and send a message, I was using it for just this reason a while back, I would set it up to answer and send the message "The BBS is currently down for Maintenance try back in an hour or so. (My Lt Kernal would take on average 30-40 minutes to back up each partition to Zip Drive.. It's a way...

AL

... There will be a rain dance Friday night, weather permitting!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Wrong Number Family Of BBS' - Wrong Number ][ (21:4/131)

If running in Windows, you can use a program called BBS Server which is sort of a TCPSER type of program mainly used to answer telnet calls and transfer them via a serial port to another serial port. It is used in
the Commodore world to have a real Commodore computer answer Telnet then transfer to a Swiftlink or serial card via a RS232 cable. It has a
option to answer and send a message, I was using it for just this reason
a while back, I would set it up to answer and send the message "The BBS
is currently down for Maintenance try back in an hour or so. (My Lt
Kernal would take on average 30-40 minutes to back up each partition to Zip Drive.. It's a way...

I love all the work the Commodore [Amiga] scene has put in to making older OSes run bbSes seamlessly - its actually pretty amazing. I know you mentioned Windows, but... some of the trickery that ya'll come up with is amazing.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

On 29 Mar 2023, paulie420 said the following...

I love all the work the Commodore [Amiga] scene has put in to making
older OSes run bbSes seamlessly - its actually pretty amazing. I know
you mentioned Windows, but... some of the trickery that ya'll come up
with is amazing.

You're right, the scene is still strong and getting stronger. If you see what Hoy Brothers is doing down at 13th floor and his C-Net DS2 board it reminds me of the 80's and 90's.. BBS Server has been around for years, the die hards just keep releasing stuff all the time.. Look at aNACHRONIST!! What he is doing with Amiga Telecom is awesome also. Just wish we were better supported all around. It will continue to get better and better for the 8 and 16 bitters..

... Press SPACEBAR once to abort, or twice to save changes

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: The Wrong Number Family Of BBS' - Wrong Number ][ (21:4/131)

.≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐ _[]_││──││ │TROY│ │HUB│ │ Fidonet │ │FSX Net│ ║S I
N C E║ │Another Message│ { NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│
│21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00─

I LOVE THIS

Sysop SolaRis
Error 1202 and Error 404 BBS !
FSXnet HuB 2 Tholian AdmiN !

... Don't diet, download a virus to remove the FAT.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Error 1202 BBS (21:2/1202)

:::::: My Back up Batch :::::::

REM BACK UP ERROR 404 and 1202 BBS
@echo off
set T=%time:~0,5%
set dir=mystic backup %date:/=-% %T::=-%
echo The target folder is "%dir%".
xcopy /e /c /y /v /h "C:\MYSTIC404\*.*" "A:\mystic404\%dir%\"
@echo off
set T=%time:~0,5%
set dir=mystic1202 backup %date:/=-% %T::=-%
echo The target folder is "%dir%".
xcopy /e /c /y /v /h "C:\MYSTIC1202\*.*" "A:\mystic1202\%dir%\"
EXIT

::::: My AutoLoad Batch :::::

:Pre-Start Purge of Stuck .BSY's /Load FSXnet
CD\
z:
DEL Z:\mystic\semaphore\*.bsy
CD\mystic\
START mis -server
:Pre-Start Purge of Stuck .BSY's /Load Error 404 BBS / Load MRC 404 Server / Load DoorParty
C:
CD\mystic404\
DEL C:\mystic404\semaphore\*.bsy
START mis -server
START c:\mystic404\mrc404.bat
START C:\mystic404\doorparty.bat
:Pre-Start Purge of Stuck .BSY's /Load Error 1202 BBS / Load MRC 1202 Server
C:
CD\
DEL c:\mystic1202\semaphore\*.bsy
CD\mystic1202\
START mis -server
START c:\mystic1202\mrc1202.bat
:Pre-Start Purge of Stuck .BSY's / Load BBS Phone Book
C:
DEL C:\BBSPhonebook\semaphore\*.bsy
CD\bbsPhonebook\
START mis -server
:Pre-Start Purge of Stuck .BSY's / Load File server BBS
C:
CD
DEL c:\mysticfs\semaphore\*.bsy
CD\mysticfs\
START mis -server
:Pre-Start Purge of Stuck .BSY's / Load Mystic Jump Web Server
C:
CD
DEL c:\mysticjump\semaphore\*.bsy
CD\mysticjump
START mis -server
EXIT


Hope this helps

Sysop SolaRis
Error 1202 and Error 404 BBS !
FSXnet HuB 2 Tholian AdmiN !

... A penny saved is not very much

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Error 1202 BBS (21:2/1202)

:::::: My Back up Batch :::::::

Thanks! I'll have to study it further :)

... Just another prisoner of gravity!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)