Hey All,
Just quickly dropping in to invite everyone to the Underground Discord Server. Myself, Paulie420, and Black Panther have created several channels that are BBS related with a lot of very helpful SysOps already participating as well as a few really good ansi artists from the scene. We have channels ranging from ansi art, coding (MPL), RCS Mod releases, Users calling into BBS announcements, and a New Mystic SysOp Support area that has been very beneficial for new Mystic SysOps. Simply fire up Discord and use this link:
Out of interest, why would you do that? Isn't the whole idea of running a BBS supposed to be to get users to communicate through the echoes we provide for them? What's point. Let's all just run discord servers.
https://discord.gg/4T29VNUFFn
if you'd like to participate.
While I prefer using a BBS, I have found discord to be extremely helpful in being able to assist new sysops, give or receive feedback on art
being draw, coding being worked on, etc.. when screen snips and more instant feedback/communication can occur. So .. we are utilizing both
and Discord has been quite effective for this purpose.
Out of interest, why would you do that? Isn't the whole idea of running
a BBS supposed to be to get users to communicate through the echoes we provide for them? What's point. Let's all just run discord servers.
Out of interest, why would you do that? Isn't the whole idea of running
a BBS supposed to be to get users to communicate through the echoes we provide for them? What's point. Let's all just run discord servers.
If one needs another way of communicating, I would prefer Matrix, as it
is an open protocol and anyone can host a server and become part of the network (not unlike a BBS network).
Just quickly dropping in to invite everyone to the Underground Discord SMyself, Paulie420, and Black Panther have created several channels
that are BB S related with a lot of very helpful SysOps already participating as well as a f ew really good ansi artists from the scene. We have channels ranging from ansi a rt, coding (MPL), RCS Mod releases, Users calling into BBS announcements, and a New Mystic SysOp Support
area that has been very beneficial for new Mystic SysOp s. Simply fire
up Discord and use this link:
But, seriously, TG set it up because it seemed to be useful for his desires, and I've enjoyed the conversation and even got noticed by
Chtulu from Mistigris because of it.
People don't have to go there, and we'll continue posting on BBSs, but some of us seem to be fairly utilitarian with our nostalgia.
Best wishes for this but I hope you continue to use echomail too...
The wrote:
Hey All,
Just quickly dropping in to invite everyone to the Underground Discord Server. Myself, Paulie420, a
Black Panther have created several channels that are BBS related with a lot of very helpful SysOps
already participating as well as a few really good ansi artists from the scene. We have channels
ranging from ansi art, coding (MPL), RCS Mod releases, Users calling into BBS announcements, and a N
Mystic SysOp Support area that has been very beneficial for new Mystic SysOps. Simply fire up Disco
and use this link:
Out of interest, why would you do that? Isn't the whole idea of running a BBS supposed to be to get us
to communicate through the echoes we provide for them? What's point. Let's all just run discord server
I totally get wanting to have an out-of-band communication channel, but Discord as tech sounds so
opposite to what people does in here tat the proposition is shocking.
Shocking? lol. ok. Well let's see ..
Araknet has a discord
QW has a discord
Mistigris has a discord
Blocktronics has a discord
Legacy has a discord
Demonic Mod Group has a discord
WWIV software has a discord
I agree .. very shocking that people want to help others and sometimes collaborate in real time. My goodness, I shouldn't have brought it up. My apologies.
acn wrote to Nigel Reed <=-
Out of interest, why would you do that? Isn't the whole idea of running a BBS supposed to be to get users to communicate through the echoes we provide for them? What's point. Let's all just run discord servers.
I have to agree here.
Besides, Discord is a commercial and closed system belonging to a
single company, so it is in no way attractive to me.
Oh, and Micro$oft wants to buy it. Yay.
Adept wrote to Nigel Reed <=-
Out of interest, why would you do that? Isn't the whole idea of running
a BBS supposed to be to get users to communicate through the echoes we provide for them? What's point. Let's all just run discord servers.
If that horrifies you, you should see the Discord-to-MRC tunnel
that MeatLotion set up on his Discord server.
(Which is pretty neat, honestly)
But, seriously, TG set it up because it seemed to be useful for
his desires, and I've enjoyed the conversation and even got
noticed by Chtulu from Mistigris because of it.
People don't have to go there, and we'll continue posting on
BBSs, but some of us seem to be fairly utilitarian with our
nostalgia.
I also participate on BBS groups on Facebook (I had a nice Zeus
ANSI that came out of that), and watch out for BBS-related posts
on Reddit.
Just quickly dropping in to invite everyone to the Underground Discord Server. Myself, Paulie420, and Black Panther have created several channels that are BBS related..
https://discord.gg/4T29VNUFFn
While I prefer using a BBS, I have found discord to be
extremely helpful in being able to assist new sysops, give
or receive feedback on art being draw, coding being worked
on, etc.. when screen snips and more instant feedback/
communication can occur. So .. we are utilizing both and
Discord has been quite effective for this purpose.
Just quickly dropping in to invite everyone to the
Underground Discord Server. ...
Out of interest, why would you do that? Isn't the whole
idea of running a BBS supposed to be to get users to
communicate through the echoes we provide for them? What's
point. Let's all just run discord servers.
Besides, Discord is a commercial and closed system belonging
to a single company, so it is in no way attractive to me.
Oh, and Micro$oft wants to buy it. Yay.
If one needs another way of communicating, I would prefer
Matrix, as it is an open protocol and anyone can host a
server and become part of the network (not unlike a BBS
network).
I totally get wanting to have an out-of-band communication
channel, but Discord as tech sounds so opposite to what
people does in here tat the proposition is shocking.
A lot of the retro computing community are just now learning BBS's are here and around. Many have questions on how to set up FTN's so they can get help. And as mentioned, when helping, screen shots are helpful for many cases. Obviously it's not a replacement. Its a supplement if used correctly.
People don't have to go there, and we'll continue posting on
BBSs, but some of us seem to be fairly utilitarian with our
nostalgia.
I'd have to believe that posting conversations on Discord would *HAVE*
to reduce the amount of participation in BBS echomail areas. It's just
an obvious logical conclusion. Not sure how that would be considered a
good thing for BBSes...
able to get online. I am sure many would-be sysops here have
resorted to email to contact another sysop and exchange files.
Hello Arelor!
** On Tuesday 23.03.21 - 15:08, Arelor wrote to Nigel Reed:
I totally get wanting to have an out-of-band communication
channel, but Discord as tech sounds so opposite to what
people does in here tat the proposition is shocking.
I hear that Matrix is a better model to gain the server control
you speak of?
Meanwhile, Telegram + tg_BBS is a pretty cool way to stay in
touch with echomail and be fully synchronized when switching to
another device! :D
I don't find it shocking. I don't use discord but I see it from time to time.
Use whatever works for you. There is no need to apologize for that.
Even these FTN echoes were a new thing at one time. People used it
because it did what they wanted to do.
Ttyl :-),
Al
Please let some of those in the community know that using
Telegram is a fine supplement too! :D
Just share the following..
Join FIDONET.TELEGRAM here:
https://t.me/joinchat/SPBwvE1gkHzEKAkapsHkdQ
https://discord.gg/4T29VNUFFn
if you'd like to participate.
This is great, just joined (dusting off my discord account). Thanks for rolling this!
:: Alpha
Just quickly dropping in to invite everyone to the Underground Discord
Out of interest, why would you do that? Isn't the whole idea of running
a BBS supposed to be to get users to communicate through the echoes we provide for them? What's point. Let's all just run discord servers.
If one needs another way of communicating, I would prefer Matrix, as it
is an open protocol and anyone can host a server and become part of the network (not unlike a BBS network).
Regards,
Anna
Best wishes for this but I hope you continue to use echomail too...
If one needs another way of communicating, I would prefer Matrix, as it is an open protocol and anyone can host a server and become part of the
network (not unlike a BBS network).
If one needs another way of communicating, I would prefer Matrix, as it is
an open protocol and anyone can host a server and become part of the network (not unlike a BBS network).
A lot of the retro computing community are just now learning BBS's are here and around. Many have questions on how to set up FTN's
so they can get help. And as mentioned, when helping, screen shots are helpful for many cases. Obviously it's not a replacement.
Its a supplement if used correctly.
Try Telegram! :D A bunch of fidonet echos are linked up.
Matrix only works on 64bit systems. Seems ironic to use either
Discord or Matrix to "support" retro tech talk! :D
Try Telegram! :D A bunch of fidonet echos are linked up.
No, I won't. At least over here in Germany, Telegram has a
kind of "bad smell" to it as many right-wing idiots use it
for their propaganda, so I will stay away from it.
Besides, many posts that are gated from Telegram to Fido
look weird in terms of formatting and subjects.
And Telegram is also a closed-source service, which doesn't make it more attractive that eg. WhatsApp.
Matrix only works on 64bit systems. Seems ironic to use
either Discord or Matrix to "support" retro tech talk! :D
For the server side: The package "matrix-synapse" is available for i386
and amd64 in the Devuan repositories.
And for the client side:
There are many clients available, even textmode ones like the Matrix extension for WeeChat.
Also, there is a commandline-only client "matrix-commander".
So it should work even on older machines, I guess I could
even use my Z80 based CP/M machine to telnet into my Linux
box and use weechat.
acn wrote to Nigel Reed <=-
If one needs another way of communicating, I would prefer Matrix, as it
is an open protocol and anyone can host a server and become part of the network (not unlike a BBS network).
deon wrote to The Godfather <=-
So I'm with you on this use case. Helping new nodes setup is far easier with a real time platform (although I would prefer matrix). Posting
logs, print screens and immediate responses to questions make it far
more productive for both parties.. :)
Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-
Re: Re: New Discord Channel with New SysOp support
By: Gamgee to Adept on Tue Mar 23 2021 06:51 pm
People don't have to go there, and we'll continue posting on
BBSs, but some of us seem to be fairly utilitarian with our
nostalgia.
I'd have to believe that posting conversations on Discord would *HAVE*
to reduce the amount of participation in BBS echomail areas. It's just
an obvious logical conclusion. Not sure how that would be considered a
good thing for BBSes...
I think realtime chat platforms and async messaging platforms
don't take much away from each other, personally.
I am certainly very active on IRC and I use it for a different
style of conversation than I use things like BBS or mailing lists
for. IRC is more for quick questions that don't require a lot of
detail (where can I find the documentation for X?) and you don't
need to share with a big group of people. Async is for stuff you
want to be able to discuss by giving it due time and care (bug
reports, project status updates).
Something real time chat platforms are very bad at is proselitism
in my opinion. You don't set an IRC server for Heavy Metal fans
expecting to turn people into metalheads, because the sort of
people who joins a Heavy Metal chat are metelheads already.
Proselitism is to be done in general platforms when you can prey
on people who does not know who Dio is.
I do have interest in Matrix - I haven't ran a server, but would love to see what it offers, how to run one and how I might tie that directly
into my, or multiple, BBSes.
But I invite YOU to the world of echomail and a few select
fidonet echos directly with Telegram (and I suggest the DT app)
Not to mention the Catch-22. You can't get onto echomail to ask for help getting into echomail until you're on echomail...
Not to mention the Catch-22. You can't get onto echomail to ask for help getting into echomail until you're on echomail...
Not to mention the Catch-22. You can't get onto echomail to ask for hel getting into echomail until you're on echomail...
It's still theoretically possible to call other BBSs. :)
But I invite YOU to the world of echomail and a few select
fidonet echos directly with Telegram (and I suggest the DT
app)
What's the benefit of using Telegram versus just chatting on
the given channels through a BBS?
Don't get me wrong -- I'm obviously significantly less of a
purist than many of the people here, and I enjoy that people
are making the technology work. I just didn't see any
particular reason to bother with another layer when I can
already use my BBS.
I suppose it probably works better on phones, for whatever
that's worth.
I was going to upvote you, but it turns out upvoting is disabled.
FIDONET.TELEGRAM - A place for discussing accessing Fidonet
using Telegram, and for modest experimentation.
Language: English
https://t.me/joinchat/TWCQfIK94npmrhs7
Use whatever works for you. There is no need to apologize for that.
Love ya Al, in a fellow BBS'er way, alls perfectly fine, I was being sarcastic. It's totally good. We started it to help peeps, if others
are good using FTN's only, totally fine. Not meant to pull users from BBS's but rather draw more to BBS's. Nothing but positive intent. Thanks to all who joined to help out!!
-tG
But I invite YOU to the world of echomail and a few select
fidonet echos directly with Telegram (and I suggest the DT app)
What's the benefit of using Telegram versus just chatting on the given channels through a BBS?
Don't get me wrong -- I'm obviously significantly less of a purist than many of the people here, and I enjoy that people are making the
technology work. I just didn't see any particular reason to bother with another layer when I can already use my BBS.
I suppose it probably works better on phones, for whatever that's worth.
124
Hey All,
Just quickly dropping in to invite everyone to the Underground Discord Server.
Myself, Paulie420, and Black Panther have created several channels that are BBS
related with a lot of very helpful SysOps already participating as well
as a few really good ansi artists from the scene. We have channels
ranging from ansi
art, coding (MPL), RCS Mod releases, Users calling into BBS
announcements, and a New Mystic SysOp Support area that has been very beneficial for new Mystic SysOps. Simply fire up Discord and use this link:
https://discord.gg/4T29VNUFFn
if you'd like to participate.
And when I get around to it, I'll gate some echos so that folks could
help folks via their BBS. (Chances are I wont get around to it - too
many other half finished projects...)
In addition and works hand in hand with the retro geeky old tech that
I love.
to touch base with other SYSOPs and those in the scene is nice. I was in the DOVENET discord for a while, but I left after a while since I didn't really care much for it.
(Hell, I've been contemplating dumping DOVENET for another
net altogether, to be honest.
Nigel,
A lot of the retro computing community are just now learning BBS's are here and around. Many have questions on how to set up FTN's so they can get help. And as mentioned, when helping, screen shots are helpful for many cases. Obviously it's not a replacement. Its a supplement if used correctly.
Re: Re: New Discord Channel with New SysOp support
By: Arelor to Adept on Wed Mar 24 2021 04:03 pm
I was going to upvote you, but it turns out upvoting is disabled.
Unfortunately, there's no FTN-equivalent for message voting. :-(
Joined up here myself. I'm very active on Discord so being able to use this to touch base with other SYSOPs and those in the scene is nice. I was in the DOVENET discord for a while, but I left after a
while since I didn't really care much for it. (Hell, I've been contemplating dumping DOVENET for another net altogether, to
honest.
Joined up here myself. I'm very active on Discord so being able to
use this to touch base with other SYSOPs and those in the scene is
nice. I was in the DOVENET discord for a while, but I left after a
while since I didn't really care much for it.
(Hell, I've been contemplating dumping DOVENET for another net
altogether, to be honest.
I hear that Matrix is a better model to gain the server control you speak of?
Arelor wrote to Adept <=-
Not to mention the Catch-22. You can't get onto echomail to ask for hel getting into echomail until you're on echomail...
It's still theoretically possible to call other BBSs. :)
I was going to upvote you, but it turns out upvoting is disabled.
Nodoka Hanamura wrote to The Godfather <=-
Joined up here myself. I'm very active on Discord so being able
to use this to touch base with other SYSOPs and those in the
scene is nice. I was in the DOVENET discord for a while, but I
left after a while since I didn't really care much for it.
(Hell,
I've been contemplating dumping DOVENET for another net
altogether, to be honest.
to me. The Discord, for me, is an icon that sits up there... and a beep from a friend who I wouldn't have read their correspondence until some later time when I logged into their BBS... its totally an addition - and
I still do all the retro, geeky BBS stuff that I normally do.
But the Discord is also better for posting ANSIs, as
terrible as that is. Here I can post something, will get a
few nice messages in response, and a handful of people
telling me that my ANSI displayed poorly on their board.
Even though I get _far_ more eyeballs on it when I post it
anywhere other than my BBS.
PS. I recently tried The Underground's Discord account on my
Win7-64b desktop. I really liked the sense of "live" when
using it. Telegram also gives a similar "live" experience as
you can get an indication that someone is working on a reply,
This is of course due to a mix of internet powered FTN packets
whizzing between hubs and nodes in a matter of minutes vs days... and having people around the planet in differing time zones who are about
and up for a chat.
Unfortunately, there's no FTN-equivalent for message voting. :-(
There is. It is called "Posting a message in which you declare that you like the specific post you are responding too".
It works for me, so not a big deal.
FIDONET.TELEGRAM - A place for discussing accessing Fidonet
using Telegram, and for modest experimentation.
Language: English
https://t.me/joinchat/TWCQfIK94npmrhs7
This one really looks good to me, Telegram.
And I've heard and seen a couple routed to/from BBSes and
other retro places.
This is neat, and I'll come by and checkout how Telegram
works.
Meanwhile, Telegram + tg_BBS is a pretty cool way to stay in
touch with echomail and be fully synchronized when switching to
another device! :D
I keep hearing about Matrix. I should give it a try one day.
I am not thrilled with Telegram. There is a lot of peolpe
trying to use it as a general social media platform, but
active groups are too prone to information overload.
And they also have the vendor lock-in issue.
Most of the time I want realtime chats I just use IRC
nowadays. The big issue IRC has is that its networks work
more like cooperative firms than actual federated farms.
XMPP is ok too. It is more "federated" but I think it has
less interesting stuff going for it in practice. The
protocol has lots of modern capabilities built in via
protocol extensions, but some people would label half of
them as bloat.
Even these FTN echoes were a new thing at one time. People used it
because it did what they wanted to do.
Love ya Al, in a fellow BBS'er way, alls perfectly fine, I was being sarcastic. It's totally good. We started it to help peeps, if others are good using FTN's only, totally fine. Not meant to pull users from BBS's but rather draw more to BBS's. Nothing but positive intent.
Thanks to all who joined to help out!!
For me I like it when at times I can have an almost (but thankfully not quite) live/realtime chat in echomail. By that I mean I post something and within 3-5 minutes later there's a reply from someone and then I post a reply and so on and by the end of 30 mins you've had a good echomail chat with someone or someones.
This is of course due to a mix of internet powered FTN packets whizzing between hubs and nodes in a matter of minutes vs days... and having people around the planet in differing time zones who are about and up for a chat.
Most of the time I want realtime chats I just use IRC
nowadays. The big issue IRC has is that its networks work
more like cooperative firms than actual federated farms.
Sorry.. not familiar with the distinction of cooperative firms
vs federated farms. I just think that if people and the
message areas can be reached/connected/shared/updated fast in
real-time, then that's amazing.
But I like Discord's ability to create a "server", such as The
Underground, and the admin can create channels within that - not
unlike a group of echos or message areas on a BBS.
A generation or two of sysops have got by without screenshots.
Anyway, I don't really see the problem of using technology that's
now available to help enjoy BBSing.
Personally, I've been enjoying using the discord. I don't even care if microsoft buy it (I ditched github because of that, and in the end the
sky didn't fall in).
I guess it seems to be a bit different concentration of demographic. The "purists" won't join because it's not a BBS or FTN,
and that's ok,
because they tend to often be grumpy, negative and sometimes just nasty.
I was going to upvote you, but it turns out upvoting is disabled.
Unfortunately, there's no FTN-equivalent for message voting. :-(
A generation or two of sysops have got by without screenshots.
Unfortunately, there's no FTN-equivalent for message voting. :-(
I do wonder how much extra terrible various Fidonet bases would be with that feature.
So it's probably for the best, even if the affirmation is nice, and helps you have a greater understanding of how many people actually saw it and thought it was kind of neat.
Unfortunately, there's no FTN-equivalent for message voting. :-(
I do wonder how much extra terrible various Fidonet bases would be with that feature.
So it's probably for the best, even if the affirmation is nice, and helps you have a greater understanding of how many people actually saw it and thought it was kind of neat.
But I say this as a person who wants everyone on wikis, because wikis are significantly better suited to this task.
What is the "task" that you speak of? Sysop support? A wiki is
a modifiable encyclopedia. Someone could come along and undo
someone else's contribution. That's not too good.
Discord seems to be well designed. Its appearance and features
are pretty good and therefore nice to look at, and there a
pleasure to use. Circles for user id space seem to be the
"thing" to use in Telegram, Discord and Matrix apps.
What is the "task" that you speak of? Sysop support? A wiki is
a modifiable encyclopedia. Someone could come along and undo
someone else's contribution. That's not too good.
And.. sometimes the kind of sysop support one needs is a
reference where to find the files one needs. A quick reply from
someone online at the time speeds things up as opposed to
waiting for the same thing in the echos.
The best way to prove that a wiki solution is "better suited"
would be to start one and see how useful it becomes.
The best way to prove that a wiki solution is "better suited"
would be to start one and see how useful it becomes.
i'd suggest that every single one of the common questions you get in a discord should be written out and posted on a wiki. not because i don't think they should be stopping in to say hi, but because the wiki can be improved upon little by little, wheras the chat you're almost starting fresh each time.
Anyway, I don't really see the problem of using technology that's
now available to help enjoy BBSing.
At present the fsxNet wiki does not see much action, it's on my TO-Do to revisit this and see if we can't as a community do a bit more with it. Like all things it's a time and energy thing. :)
I am not impressed with the Like system in FB. It seems to
discourage a real conversation.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls that thing" - the Dune film.
with. Add to that the algorithms that only show you posts similar
to things you've liked in the past and you have today's political
climate. No, real conversation is not the goal.
I believe (hope?) that as people tire of all the drama and manipulation
on the corporate Internet BBSes will experience a renaissance of sorts.
From the increase in BBS/FTN traffic I've seen just over the last few months, maybe it's started. :)
..Circles for user id space seem to be the
"thing" to use in Telegram, Discord and Matrix apps.
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of circles for pictures. When facebook did it it was annoying because it doesn't always work for pictures that are square.
Seems to be the in thing. I guess someone got carried away with rounded rectangles.
...and with echomail you can read that reply and advice later
(much like a wiki entry I guess) so you didn't need to be online at the time. Swings and roundabouts really.
The best way to prove that a wiki solution is "better suited"
would be to start one and see how useful it becomes.
I'm not sure anything needs to be be proven.
wiki.synchro.net
wiki.mysticbbs.com
epicsol.org (scriptable irc client)
i'd suggest that every single one of the common questions you get in a discord should be written out and posted on a wiki. not because i don't think they should be stopping in to say hi, but because the wiki can be improved upon little by little, wheras the chat you're almost starting fresh each time.
Actually that feature is quite good, although misused perhaps.Unfortunately, there's no FTN-equivalent for message voting. :-(I do wonder how much extra terrible various Fidonet bases would be wi that feature.
If it were to be implemented, what would that even look like in echomail? Would it be something like an extra tagline? A
hidden kludge?
What is the "task" that you speak of? Sysop support? A wiki is
a modifiable encyclopedia. Someone could come along and undo
someone else's contribution. That's not too good.
And.. sometimes the kind of sysop support one needs is a
reference where to find the files one needs. A quick reply from
The best way to prove that a wiki solution is "better suited"
would be to start one and see how useful it becomes.
The best way to prove that a wiki solution is "better suited"
would be to start one and see how useful it becomes.
You mean like the Mystic BBS wiki that I've previously posted links to and used to describe how to do things?
I could start my own wiki, but would rather spend my productive energy, effort, and time elsewhere.[snip]
But I've started or massively expanded work wikis multiple times, have a wiki for wine tasting I've done, and that's just scratching the surface of how I've used them.
Actually that feature is quite good, although misused perhaps.
It's the assumed misuse that makes me question it.
Maybe it'd work okay on Fidonet if it's more like Discord, and reactions don't make any difference for how the post gets surfaced.
BBSes, but I've come to realize a few things since the last time. I've been trying out several alternatives to social media including going
back to blogging about my journey into self-hosted, decentralized, and federated communication platforms.. so like BBSes. :)
I'm not sure anything needs to be be proven.
Synchronet has a wiki for its software. So, yes.. that aspect is
proven. It's like a growing, current, user's manual. That's
pretty darn good. But a Discord space entertains a live feel
where people can gather and share questions/answers right away.
That's pretty good too!
I just discovered this one: https://breakintochat.com/
It seems to have a wiki platform. It's a rather nice way to chronicle
the topic of BBS door games.
Though, I am not sure why we are all using wikis? Adept, what is this task?
some time back I'd set up wiki.fsxnet.nz with the goal being a place to
You are also notified who has up/down voted your message. That all works fine in QWK areas but I'm not really sure how or if that could work in FTN areas.
this is an area that has long interested me as well. its also one of the reasons i like the old ftn tech that bbs offers although unless we find
non internet dependent ways to shift packets between nodes i fear any deliberate attempt by a hostile force to cut marine cables currently carrying most global net traffic would quickly silence this and any other ftn hobby network :-(
that the algorithms that only show you posts similar to things you've liked in the past and you have today's political climate.
But make no mistake, there's plenty of drama to go around here as well. Where there are humans interacting, there is drama.
You are also notified who has up/down voted your message. That all works fine in QWK areas but I'm not really sure how or if that could work in FTN areas.
Maybe we could send stuff by postal mail such as flash drives of content and exchange them back with each other if wires got cut.
It might cost 15 bucks each way to ship a flash drive back and forth monthly.
this is an area that has long interested me as well. its also one of
the reasons i like the old ftn tech that bbs offers although unless
we find non internet dependent ways to shift packets between nodes i
fear any deliberate attempt by a hostile force to cut marine cables currently carrying most global net traffic would quickly silence this
and any other ftn hobby network :-(
Hello Al!
** On Saturday 27.03.21 - 12:53, Al wrote to Adept:
You are also notified who has up/down voted your message. That all works fine in QWK areas but I'm not really sure how or if that could work in FTN areas.
I don't think I've ever seen it in QWK. Is the feature limited
in Dovenet areas? Would I see that in a packet from your place?
Did you explore Matrix before you decided on Discord? From the
sound of it, Matrix seems to be a better model for BBS sysop-
types so that every Matrix node is P2P (decentralized) to each
other much like how BBSes operate and interconnect now.
Anyway, I don't really see the problem of using technology that's
now available to help enjoy BBSing.
Personally, I've been enjoying using the discord. I don't even care if microsoft buy it (I ditched github because of that, and in the end the
sky didn't fall in).
I guess it seems to be a bit different concentration of demographic. The "purists" won't join because it's not a BBS or FTN, and that's ok,
because they tend to often be grumpy, negative and sometimes just nasty.
I am not impressed with the Like system in FB. It seems to
discourage a real conversation.
It's more insidious than that. If you've seen Netflix documentary, The Social Dilema, likes are intended to create an addiction, but they call it "engagement". ...
.. Add to that the algorithms that only show you posts
similar to things you've liked in the past and you have
today's political climate. No, real conversation is not the
goal.
FB is a horrible place to even find other people's comments. I
am finding that the FB's groups system has a terrible search
system too. It only seems to look at the "posts", not the
comments nor the replies.
In addition and works hand in hand with the retro geeky old tech that
I love.
All I know, Paulie420, is that I am now low-key obsessed with your PiBoy. It's all I think about, thanks
If you can only carry one network. <shrug>
Even though I get _far_ more eyeballs on it when I post it anywhere other than my BBS.
I've been wanting to do setup a true packet radio network or node for some time, but there's a bit of a chicken and egg situation along with the issue that a great number of Hams don't have a great interest in
that avenue of the hobby these days.
Umm .. no. I'm sure there is a SysOp or two who are already switching over to Matrix. At the moment, I like the community we have on Discord and I don't see
it needing to "go away." I'm sure there is room for both, and each have
Certainly. But this is also a place whereIf people want 1) I might create an othernet that will deadicate to that big time. lol
1) There's a no-politics rule
we find non internet dependent ways to shift packets between nodes i
fear any deliberate attempt by a hostile force to cut marine cables currently carrying most global net traffic would quickly silence th
and any other ftn hobby network :-(
I remember some people transfering packets over amateur radio. This is
something I would like to experiment with one day if I ever get around
getting my license.
Unfortunately, there's no FTN-equivalent for message voting. :-(
I do wonder how much extra terrible various Fidonet bases would be with that feature.
I don't think I've ever seen it in QWK. Is the feature limited
in Dovenet areas? Would I see that in a packet from your place?
The best way to prove that a wiki solution is "better suited"
would be to start one and see how useful it becomes.
It could work similarly pretty easily. It could either be a new message type within a standard (type-2) packet that would be ignored by most tossers or it could be implemented as a control (kludge) line to an otherwise blank message. Some experimentation would be required to determine how well old FTN software ignored/skipped the votes, but its totally doable.
I am not impressed with the Like system in FB. It seems to
discourage a real conversation.
It's more insidious than that. If you've seen Netflix documentary, The Socia Dilema, likes are intended to create an addiction, but they call it "engagement". It causes a small hit of dopamine as part of the brain's rewar system that can lead to anxiety, depression, and all of the other things people addicted to social media struggle with. Add to that the algorithms that only show you posts similar to things you've liked in the past and you have today's political climate. No, real conversation is not the goal.
Lachlan
On that note, I'm still also enamored with the idea of a BBS mesh
network over LoRa. But I'm still trying to shoehorn that idea into something that could be used at a post-apocalytic LARP. (And that'd probably be more reasonable with Wifi than LoRa, other than power issues)
Though, with that idea, I could imagine having something that's mostly off grid, but uses that flash-drive idea to update posts and send them out into the wild.
I guess it seems to be a bit different concentration of demographic. Th "purists" won't join because it's not a BBS or FTN, and that's ok, because they tend to often be grumpy, negative and sometimes just nasty
Preach it brother.
you would run into issues with that i think.. there are restrictions to what you can and can't transmit. bbs ad echos would be out. stats messages too. then there's the question of whether people who posted on your board are "operating your station" or whether you're relaying messages.. from the FCC's point of view at least. i'm sure someone else could chime in and clarify since i mostly just know "i'd have to look into it" ..
It's more insidious than that. If you've seen Netflix documentary, The Social Dilema, likes are intended to create an addiction, but they call it "engagement". ...
I heard of the docu some time ago. Is it only on Neflix?
FB is a horrible place to even find other people's comments. I am finding that the FB's groups system has a terrible search system
too. It only seems to look at the "posts", not the comments nor the replies.
So we are trying to get a comunity to be more inclusive and friendly
towards
users, and then somebody makes a sweeping generalization regarding
some users
being *bad* because of their software deployment preferences, and such
claim is
to be praised?
didn't really care much for it. (Hell, I've been contemplating dumping DOVENET for another net altogether, to be honest.
Now, you'll probably write me back, nit-pick every thing I said, because
I suppose you think it makes you look thoughtful. You do that every time.
can you point me to your blog? i'd be interested to have a read.
this is an area that has long interested me as well. its also one
of the reasons i like the old ftn tech that bbs offers although
unless we find non internet dependent ways to shift packets between
nodes i fear any deliberate attempt by a hostile force to cut
marine cables currently carrying most global net traffic would
quickly silence this and any other ftn hobby network :-(
Re: Re: New Discord Channel with New SysOp support
By: Digital Man to Al on Sat Mar 27 2021 04:21 pm
It could work similarly pretty easily. It could either be a new message type within a standard (type-2) packet that would be ignored by most tossers or it could be implemented as a control (kludge) line to an otherwise blank message. Some experimentation would be required to determine how well old FTN software ignored/skipped the votes, but its totally doable.
It's possible we could experiment with that in fsxNet. I'd up vote your post if I could.. :)
Not really a concern. Transmitting binary data is permitted in most jurisdictions. Putting up an ax.25 node or similar however, will run you into issues you need to be careful about regarding what areas/echoes are available to be accessed over the air.
In my experience, people upvote quite freely, but for it to be
downvotes, the post has to be outrageously bad. By the I mean,
unwarranted personal attacks or things like that.
Yes, but it would require the involvement of the prominent echomail
tosser author here (since it's not open source), and I don't think he's present. Anyway, I'm game.
In my experience, people upvote quite freely, but for it to be downvotes, the post has to be outrageously bad. By the I mean, unwarranted personal attacks or things like that.
I think it depends on the situation.
E.g., political things (or things that are seen as political, even if they'r not intended as such) will have a greater amount of downvotes from disagreement.
But that might just be that Reddit is kinda hive-mind-y, with various different hives throughout the site.
that is true. However, I was thinking of what I see in the BBS universe for the most part.
Anyway, I don't really see the problem of using technology that's
now available to help enjoy BBSing.
I feel nothing is really lost, but much is gained. Particularly with interfacing with the BBS community in a more instant way. I feel *more* connected to BBSing with these augmented/modern channels. It doesn't
make me want to BBS less. MRC makes me feel this way, too.
some time back I'd set up wiki.fsxnet.nz with the goal being a place to add helpful info etc. for the wider BBS scene. I agree that if things
are coming up again and again it's good to have them documented on a
wiki.
At present the fsxNet wiki does not see much action, it's on my TO-Do to revisit this and see if we can't as a community do a bit more with it. Like all things it's a time and energy thing. :)
BY: Adept(21:2/108)
|11A|09> |10But that might just be that Reddit is kinda hive-mind-y, with various|07
|11A|09> |10different hives throughout the site.|07
If your not to the left of Jeremy Corbyn or Bernie Saunders yes, you will ge downvoted on political posts there. Yeah reddit is a no-go zone for me for politics since I am not of that inclination. I'll go there for video game discussion forums at least.
didn't really care much for it. (Hell, I've been contemplating dumpin DOVENET for another net altogether, to be honest.
MetroNet is here. ;)
On 03-28-21 04:36, fusion wrote to Utopian Galt <=-
DOVE-Net has two echos that are good for that. One intentionally and
the other (General) often by coincidence. I don't carry the Debate area because it's not really my thing. Maybe I'm doing a disservice to my users. Perhaps check that out first? Very low bar for entry
(tech-wise.. just create an extra qwk account)
On 03-28-21 04:33, Al wrote to Digital Man <=-
It's possible we could experiment with that in fsxNet. I'd up vote your post if I could.. :)
On 03-27-21 12:23, Exodus wrote to Nodoka Hanamura <=-
didn't really care much for it. (Hell, I've been contemplating dumping DOVENET for another net altogether, to be honest.
MetroNet is here. ;)
On 03-28-21 13:04, Digital Man wrote to Al <=-
Yes, but it would require the involvement of the prominent echomail
tosser author here (since it's not open source), and I don't think he's present. Anyway, I'm game.
It's helped me in the past, and while I'd love all the wikis to be bleeding edge and updated and used MORE - *ANY* BBS info on the web is good.
I just started a gopher. gopher://20ForBeers.com:70
On 03-28-21 04:33, Al wrote to Digital Man <=-
It's possible we could experiment with that in fsxNet. I'd up vote your post if I could.. :)
If DM can convince the author of Multimail to add voting support, then I'd join the fun. :)
If your not to the left of Jeremy Corbyn or Bernie Saunders yes, you
will get downvoted on political posts there.
for me for politics since I am not of that inclination. I'll go there
for video game discussion forums at least.
If DM can convince the author of Multimail to add voting support, then I'd join the fun. :)
It's possible we could experiment with that in fsxNet. I'd up vote
your post if I could.. :)
Yes, but it would require the involvement of the prominent echomail tosser author here (since it's not open source), and I don't think he's present. Anyway, I'm game.
On 03-29-21 18:15, Digital Man wrote to Vk3jed <=-
If DM can convince the author of Multimail to add voting support, then I'd join the fun. :)
Multimail is also open source, so it's really possible for anyone (including me) to add support in there. Would be nice. https://github.com/wmcbrine/MultiMail/issues/22
On 03-29-21 21:46, Al wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Re: Re: New Discord Channel with New SysOp support
By: Vk3jed to Al on Mon Mar 29 2021 08:38 pm
If DM can convince the author of Multimail to add voting support, then I'd join the fun. :)
It's possible William McBrine could/would add support if he knew how it works.
It also possible Digital Man could add support as he already knows how
it works.. :)
some time back I'd set up wiki.fsxnet.nz with the goal being a place to add
helpful info etc. for the wider BBS scene. I agree that if things
are coming up again and again it's good to have them documented on a wiki.
At present the fsxNet wiki does not see much action, it's on my TO-Do to revis
this and see if we can't as a community do a bit more with it. Like all things
it's a time and energy thing. :)
It's helped me in the past, and while I'd love all the wikis to be bleeding edge an
updated and used MORE - *ANY* BBS info on the web is good.
I just started a gopher. gopher://20ForBeers.com:70
|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........
It really does seem like a "both sides" situation to me, with the voting, because
people use it as an, "I disagree" button, not a, "Wow, you're being really awful,
right now" button.
Out of interest, why would you do that? Isn't the whole idea of running
a BBS supposed to be to get users to communicate through the echoes we provide for them? What's point. Let's all just run discord servers.
Try Telegram! :D A bunch of fidonet echos are linked up.
Telegram is much more efficient (less of a data hog), supports
older platforms (my main goto device is my T60 laptop with XP)
I've been trying to warm up to participating in two BBS-related
groups in Facebook. The experience does not compare to a decent
and fully searchable echomail group with subjects, threads, etc.
On FB, a post will report how manny Comments it has. Fine, so
you click on that, and then each Comment may have its own
Replies. So, you spend a lot of time clicking "Replies", then
going up a level to the next Comment and clicking on the next
"Replies" below that, and so on to get the full thread.
Terrible. And the S)earch does not seem to search through the
Comments and Replies! Not too good, imho.
Most of the time I want realtime chats I just use IRC nowadays. The big issue IRC has
is that its networks work more like cooperative firms than actual federated farms.
However, it has tons of open bot frameworks to work with, open clients
to use the
protocol with, and booting a server that you actually own and control is close to
trivial.
I just started a gopher. gopher://20ForBeers.com:70
On 23 Mar 2021, Ogg said the following...
Try Telegram! :D A bunch of fidonet echos are linked up.
Telegram is much more efficient (less of a data hog), supports
older platforms (my main goto device is my T60 laptop with XP)
Personally, I've tried Telegram, and I don't like it. I was
already using Discord anyway, that's where the people I want
to have conversations with already were. I don't need
another messenger app, when I already have 3. Very few
people I know even know what Telegram is.
...So, you spend a lot of time clicking "Replies", then
going up a level to the next Comment and clicking on the next
"Replies" below that, and so on to get the full thread.
Terrible.
I prefer it that way myself, like grouping emails into
threads, it makes it far easier to follow what the heck is
going on. Especially considering some folks in echos don't
quote what they're replying to, I find that confusing when I
start reading in the middle of a conversation and have no
idea what's going on.
..And the S)earch does not seem to search through the
Comments and Replies! Not too good, imho.
As far as searching for comments, I've
never had any need to do that, so I don't miss not being
able to do that.
That being said, I don't like Facebook, but I have to use it
for work because I admin pages. And some folks, that's the
only way I know how to reach them. Messenger is one of the 3
messaging apps I use.
On 23 Mar 2021, Arelor said the following...
Most of the time I want realtime chats I just use IRC nowadays. The big issue
has
is that its networks work more like cooperative firms than actual federated
farms.
However, it has tons of open bot frameworks to work with, open clients to use the
protocol with, and booting a server that you actually own and control is close
trivial.
I like IRC, but anytime I go on it anymore, hardly anyone ever says anything, they
just idle for hours.
For the record, I am among those that resists it when a
tchnology, service or product tries to switch _scope_.
Experience shows changing the scope of a working machine
tends to obliterate it.
If you gate an established BBS sub with an Instant Messaging
system, you are changing the scope.
The reason is that Instant Messaging systems are designed to
deliver small messages that are intended to be processed in
real time. It is a completely different world. Trying to
read a message such as this one over Telegram SUCKS because
Telegram is designed for something else.
Meanwhile IM applications are designed in such a way that
they promote the creation of a steady stream of short
messages, which SUCKS for people who is using a platform
tailored to small bursts of long messages.
Corporations are always trying to change the scope of their
product lines, specially when those lines are failing. Maybe
you have a line of chocolatines, and chocolatine sales are
failing because strawberry is on the rise. What many
corporations will do is create an hybrid product that is
half-chocolatine, half strawberry, and will get nobody's
love: your existing customers chose your chocolatines
because they wanted chocolatines, not some weird thing; fans
of strawberries don't want chocolatines, and for that
matter, there are better strawberries out there than your
frankenproduct.
The reason why I am writing this wall of text is to show
that us grumpy, retrograde bastards that are better kept at
bay, have our preferences because of specific, non-arbitrary
reasons.
If you do decide to try let me know and I'll enable voting in the fsxnet areas and we'll see how it goes.
Ttyl :-),
Al
I just started a gopher. gopher://20ForBeers.com:70
I just gave your gopherhole a try with CGO and Lynx and it does not look right. You
have a long trail of ugly code by the end of the root directory.
If you do decide to try let me know and I'll enable voting in the
fsxnet areas and we'll see how it goes.
I'd LOVE upvotes. Downvotes, not so much but... if they were a requirement to have ups, I'd use them too.
I *love* Syncs msg voting system.
On 03-29-21 11:22, Starstorm wrote to Arelor <=-
I like IRC, but anytime I go on it anymore, hardly anyone ever says anything, they just idle for hours.
Another option (besides LoRa) is mesh networking using standard, commercially available WiFi routers with firmware modified to use the portion of part 15 spectrum where the channels which overlap with
Very few people that I know even know what Discord is. ;) Same
Very few people that I know even know what Discord is. ;)
I'm in that paddock, while I know its been around for some
time, I have no real idea how it works, or why I'd want to
be bothered looking at it. Rightly or wrongly, I've seen
them as alternatives to things like FB which is hardly a
convincing reason to look at anything like that.
I also just realized that it is not possible to highlight and copy
any Comment or Reply! What good is that when you need to copy
a particular message that contains helpful information for later referral.
Another option (besides LoRa) is mesh networking using
standard, commercially available WiFi routers with
firmware modified to use the portion of part 15 spectrum..
The achilles of 2.4Ghz and probably even moreso 5Ghz is getting any practical coverage. ...
http://melbourne.wireless.org.au/ <-- seems to have gone the way of the dodo.
By the time to start trying to gain range via directional
antennas you have to be lucky to find someone pointing in
your direction already, and you're obviously limiting
anyone local that could connect to you.
One of my laptops radios can pick up the wifi signal from my
neighbor about 400-500m away. I get 1/5 bars. It's direct line
of sight, so I guess that helps. But my house is wrapped in
aluminum and tin, top to bottom.
..But my house is wrapped in aluminum and tin, top to
bottom.
Except for your windows, which presumably exist and are much larger than the wavelengths at play here. :)
http://melbourne.wireless.org.au/ <-- seems to have gone the way of the dodo.
By the time to start trying to gain range via directional antennas you have to be lucky to find someone pointing in your direction
already, and you're obviously limiting anyone local that could connect to you.
By the time to start trying to gain range via directional antennas you have to be lucky to find someone pointing in your direction already,
and you're obviously limiting anyone local that could connect to you.
On 03-31-21 22:07, Spectre wrote to lynx769 <=-
The achilles of 2.4Ghz and probably even moreso 5Ghz is getting any practical coverage. Used to be "Melbourne Wireless" here, I signed on
to pop a node up but in the end even after a couple of moves and
differing possibilities for aerial and height was never able to find another node I could connect too.
http://melbourne.wireless.org.au/ <-- seems to have gone the way of the dodo.
By the time to start trying to gain range via directional antennas you have to be lucky to find someone pointing in your direction already,
and you're obviously limiting anyone local that could connect to you.
Shame we cant get something going - I'm guessing you are about 25klms
from me - I have no idea what would work (its a new field for me)
- and even the range of lora is about 20klms I've read. I guess
some sort of 802.11 rig should work (and be possible without
licenses, etc)?
A sysop chronicles a journey with a mesh network in the Netherlands here:
..But my house is wrapped in aluminum and tin, top to bottom.
Shame we cant get something going - I'm guessing you are about 25klms from
Ogg wrote to echicken <=-
..But my house is wrapped in aluminum and tin, top to
bottom.
Except for your windows, which presumably exist and are much larger than the wavelengths at play here. :)
The windows are not in direct line of sight though. They're kind
of off to the side.
On 04-03-21 09:07, Spectre wrote to deon <=-
Well if I remember right, you shouldn't need a license under 25db
signal strength? I forget.. LOS is critical though, if you can't see
I still have some of the antenna's here... a ~15db Yagi, and some
decent size Omni. Still a PCI card or two with the external antenna
jack but I don't think I've got anything left to put them into.
I've got some ex Galaxy gridpacks and flat panel antennas for 2.4
GHz.
On 04-05-21 22:53, Spectre wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I've got some ex Galaxy gridpacks and flat panel antennas for 2.4
GHz.
We're all dressed up and ready, with no place to go. :P
I also just realized that it is not possible to highlight and copy
any Comment or Reply! What good is that when you need to copy
a particular message that contains helpful information for later referral.
Shame we cant get something going - I'm guessing you are about 25klms
from me - I have no idea what would work (its a new field for me)
- and even the range of lora is about 20klms I've read. I guess
some sort of 802.11 rig should work (and be possible without
licenses, etc)?
I've got some ex Galaxy gridpacks and flat panel antennas for 2.4
GHz.
| Sysop: | Shaun Ewing |
|---|---|
| Location: | Blue Mountains, Australia |
| Users: | 193 |
| Nodes: | 16 (0 / 16) |
| Uptime: | 135:08:25 |
| Calls: | 142 |
| Files: | 187,815 |
| Messages: | 323,994 |